From Burnout to Breakthrough: Rewriting the Story of Your Work; A conversation with Danielle Droitsch on burnout, identity, and rediscovering your strengths

Speaker A: 00:00:48

This episode I've been looking forward to so, so much. The topic is so relatable to me personally, and I suspect it will be for a lot of you listeners out there as well.

Danielle Droitsch has spent decades doing purpose driven work in climate and conservation and then like so many, she hit the wall.

What followed was a journey not just of career change, but of rediscovery, resilience and redefining what it means to do meaningful work without losing yourself in the process. Now she specializes in guiding mid to late career professionals in finding their next fulfilling career.

Chapter one that not only brings them joy, but also enables them to make a positive difference in the world. We talk about burnout, identity fulfillment, and why working in a dream job can still leave you drained if it's not aligned with your strengths.

We also get into what it's like navigating this all in today's political climate and why health, hope and action need to go hand in hand. I enjoyed this one so much and I am absolutely sure that you will too. Let's dive in.

Hey there and welcome to Stories for the Future, a podcast where we bring people together to explore different viewpoints and move beyond simple yes or no answers. I'm Vesluma Klavnes Varge and I'll be your friendly guide on this journey.

Come along as we have honest conversations with experts, creative thinkers, and wonderful everyday people who are helping us build bridges and imagine exciting new possibilities. All of us together. Welcome so much to my podcast. Danielle, it's so great to have you finally as a guest.

Speaker B: 00:02:48

I'm so happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker A: 00:02:51

Yeah, it's great. And even though the topics that I have on my podcast, they vary a little bit.

So I talk about career change, but I also talk about polarization and bridging divides and impactful work and all.

But the overall essence from day one of the podcast was like my curiosity about how we can find a really exciting, interesting job and combine that with a happy, healthy life and then on top of that also take care of people and planet. So that is the overall essence. And when I saw your profile, I think that was like a perfect match. We are so well aligned, I think. Don't you agree?

Speaker B: 00:03:40

Oh yes.

I mean when you reached out to me I was like, I cannot believe how excited I am because I don't put there are people who are focused exclusively on career and it's one reason I don't like to call myself a career coach because I feel like that's Way too limiting.

Although I do work with people every day on their careers because of course we work and we want to make sure that that part of our lives is as fulfilling and impactful as possible. But it really isn't just about our careers. It's just about this idea of creating impact and bringing purpose.

Because most of the people I work with, and it sounds like many of your listeners are, you know, we're not just here to make money.

I mean, yes, we need to have our homes, we need to be able to pay our bills, but we are here on this planet to, for some reason, some impact and we want to feel that, that we are driving forward. So it is career, it is purpose, it's impact, and it's also about fulfillment.

Because if you are delivering a career and creating impact and you're unhappy, then guess what, you probably aren't going to be that great, great of a change maker.

Speaker A: 00:04:52

Yes.

Speaker B: 00:04:53

So they're all connected. They're all. My belief is you can have it all. There's no reason you can't have it all. But it does take a little bit of work to get to that place.

Speaker A: 00:05:03

Exactly.

And so I guess I'm kind of also coming at it from a slightly different angle because I had this background from oil and gas and all that and then diving into more impactful like purpose, climate, sustainability and thinking that okay, as long as I can make that work, everything will be perfect and I will be happy and I will do great work. But no, it wasn't like that.

So I have discovered again and again through this journey that even though I, on paper the work looks really perfect and great, if I'm not passionate about it, I don't do good work. And then I guess if I had continued doing it, I would eventually burn out. So that is where I want to jump to your own journey.

So because you have a long background from really purposeful, impactful work and you can tell us about that, but you also hit that famous wall at some point. So what happened and what led up to it?

Speaker B: 00:06:25

Yeah, well, and maybe this will resonate with some of your listeners because I really did. I was pretty laser focused for most of my career, in my 20s and my 30s mostly, and then I sort of was in my early 40s that I hit the wall.

But I was, and I still am, an environmentalist and built a career around environmental policy and law.

I got a law degree, I worked in all sorts of different environmental conservation organizations in the US and eventually went to Canada as well to work there on a range Water and forestry and energy and climate and was driven, like driven based on what I thought success was. And that's a big theme is like, what is success?

Well, at the time, for many years decades, success to me was working for the most impactful, best change making organization so that I could create the biggest possible environmental change that made actual difference. I was really interested in organizations that actually did good work.

So I worked, I moved around to many organizations, I even created two nonprofits myself to work on water issues and felt very proud of what I did. I still do, but kind of toward the, in my late 30s, I just noticed I was doing the same thing over and over again.

Like I was still doing the same tactics, same campaigns. And I was like, well, maybe I'm bored, so maybe I need to change the interest area. Maybe I need to like move it to instead of water.

Maybe I'm interested in climate. And I did make that pivot. So I was working on water for a solid decade and I thought, oh well, climate's the new issue, maybe it's climate.

And then I moved to climate. And then I was like, wait, this is not doing the trick. Why am I not?

And the way I described it for a really long time was, something's missing, I don't know what it is. And I kept thinking, oh, this puzzle piece, this is it.

Once I finally, once I finally start to work for an organization with a lot of money, once I start to get enough authority and responsibility, whatever it was, I kept thinking, oh, that will be the thing. Maybe I have a staff. Maybe I'm finally recognized for being the leader. I don't know what it was, but I kept trying to fill this gap.

And then honestly, I became a mom. And I thought that was a gap. I was like, oh, I need to be a mom. And it really, I was, she was born, I love her to death. She's my everything.

But it wasn't that either. So I thought, wow, I'm really like, is this it? Like this is life? There's something not here.

And I'm working on big issues on climate change for one of the biggest national or international organizations out there. And so that's when I began to go through a, a journey of soul searching. And I dialed back my full time to part time. I started to volunteer.

I was doing a ton of stuff. I was volunteering for a domestic violence shelter. I started to work with a refugee family.

I guess I just kept looking desperately for what could fill this void. And I knew it was something in the space of helping I felt like there was something about help, but I didn't know what it was.

And so for a while I thought, oh, I just need to start working with people and helping them, you know. But then I started to work with domestic violence, like victims of domestic violence.

And I quickly figured out that that was not actually what I really wanted to do. And helping the refugee family, very meaningful, important to me, but it was not filling that gap. And eventually I fell into this. This.

This whole thing of trying to figure out, like, what is it within me that actually feels that sense of purpose and fulfillment, feel fulfilled, filled up, and, you know, fast forward, I learned that it was about exercising my superpowers. It wasn't about a special skill. It wasn't about an interest area. It was really about taking my natural talents and using them.

And I know that seems a little awkward or weird or different, and we can talk about what that means, but for me, my talent was ultimately to become a coach. Like, to become someone who helps other people figure out how they can become fulfilled.

So that, of course, that was the irony of all ironies, is that I still need to figure that part out for myself. But. But I.

But I figured out that one of my key strengths is really understanding people, being empathetic, learning, gathering data, and then helping them figure out, like, what. What actually their strategy needs to be for fulfillment. And I didn't figure that until I did, you know, more experimentation.

But it was not about a different environmental issue. It wasn't about helping a different group of people.

It actually ended up being exercising this superpower, which, once I figured it out, all of a sudden, a lot of things made sense because then I looked back and said, wow, I just noticed that all the people at my office kept coming to my office to ask me for advice for what to do about various personal issues I had. Many of my friends would come to me and they would ask me for advice about what things they should do. And my family were doing that.

So I had already fulfilled.

I already had this role of helping other people and figuring out their problems and helping them feel empowered to make choices and to solve problems. But I had ignored that part of my life and thought, oh, well, that's just this other part of me.

Speaker A: 00:12:38

And.

Speaker B: 00:12:38

And in fact, that was the part that I needed to nurture and grow. So sometimes the thing you're looking for is actually right in front of you, but you have to first notice it. So that's a little bit of my journey.

But it really took me a number of years. I'm still working in the environmental space as a consultant, helping out organizations. Cause I enjoy that.

But I've built up a whole career around helping other people reach their full potential, which includes figuring out their career path.

Speaker A: 00:13:10

So it's, it's very similar to, to my own journey in a way like that. Self reflection and trying to, to find your, your superpowers and the best combination of your skills, interests, passions, all that.

But, but I also, I spent years, it took, it took me a very long time. Do you think it, does it have to take a long time or have you discovered some kind of secret recipe for how to get there faster in a way?

Speaker B: 00:13:47

Well, I do. In fact, I work, I coach people and I have a group program that actually helps people figure these things out. I do think it takes time.

So even, even in my own group program we try, we fast track in the sense of it doesn't take years and years. But, but what I have seen is that it does take enough time. It takes the time it's going to take.

And so for some people, they have already had a lot of processing and they've been thinking and so they show up to our program, you know, with, with specific ideas and then other people have no idea and they need a little bit more time.

So I do really think that for those who are in this, like, I don't know who I am and I don't know what I need to do and I haven't figured it out to really be gentle with yourself about this process because I know it's extremely vulnerable. It's like it's the most vulnerable situation you can be in because for a long time maybe you felt like you had a direction and you were on the path.

Just like I was one of my 20s and 30s. I was absolutely certain and then I wasn't. And then suddenly you're like, whoa, what do I do now?

Do I just keep going up this proverbial ladder that doesn't seem to be working for me, or do I pull the plug or. And what does it say about myself, you know, that I don't know?

So it's, you know, I've worked with hundreds of professionals, hundreds and hundreds of professionals who feel them, they've, they've gotten to the stopping point and it is very emotional and it is very, very vulnerable because it sort of undermine. It questions the very foundation of who they think they are as a person. And they are like, oh, wait, I thought I was that person.

That's how everybody knows me. That's how LinkedIn knows me. That's how my world knows me.

Speaker A: 00:15:45

Yeah.

Speaker B: 00:15:45

And then suddenly you're like, well, actually, and for me, I went through a very emotional process because I was an environmental lawyer that was identified as a campaigner who worked on these big issues on oil and gas, actually. And I suddenly was like, wait, who am I? And then when I figured out that maybe coaching was a possibility, I certainly did not know for sure.

I decided, oh, well, maybe coaching. It was scary as hell to go out to my community and say, I'm a coach. I have a business. Here's my website.

That was probably the scariest moment of, you know, my career because it was very vulnerable. People are very judgy about coaches and what they do.

And, I mean, now it's a bit more accepted than it was 10 years ago, but there still is a little bit of a question mark because it's an unregulated industry. And so, you know, so what, you know, like. And I really had to get out and do something because I had to test it.

I had to see whether, in fact, it would work for me. So I'm acknowledging it's very emotional, it's very vulnerable.

And yet that's exactly what you have to do in order to figure out what's right for you. Because once you figure out what that path looks like, and it might be a path for a couple of years or the rest of your life, we don't know.

And it's not necessarily a career I'm talking about or a specific role. It's really about figuring out those. Those superpowers and those talents and then figuring out ways to put them to work.

So in my case, I have these superpowers that help people reach their full potential. Well, there's a lot of different ways to do that. Coaching's just one of them.

Other people write books, other people speak, other people have podcasts, and they help people figure out what their journey is. And those. Those people in the. In, they're called developers. In my language, developers are people who help other others reach their full potential.

But there's a lot of different pathways. And so once you figure out these sort of basic superpowers, then you have to figure out, okay, how do I actually put those to work?

And then some of that might be in a space of being paid for it, like, it's a vocation, and in other cases, it's a superpower, which may or may not be something you're paid for. As one example, I have people who are artists. They are incredible, creative people that Come my way.

And they can paint, and they can write beautiful poetry or narrative. They can sculpt. And they ask themselves, well, should I then become an artist? And the answer is, we don't know yet.

Maybe the answer is we need to weave being an artist into your life and it needs to have a home for your life. But maybe it's. I don't like the word hobby, because that sounds so not important.

I mean, it may need to be something that's a part of your life and part of your. Who you are, but it's not necessarily something you need to, like, line up a business around.

What we really want to figure out is what are your natural talents? What are your superpowers? And then what parts of those can make up a career? And what parts are still going to be part of who you are?

For me, I am a pianist. I play lots of piano. I was trained. I was a classically trained pianist that went to college for. For piano. I started up as a piano major.

And I remember making the decision not to pursue my piano performance degree because I realized that I was not in the top 1% of people who might go and, you know, make a living. And I didn't really want to teach. And so I left the music. The music degree to become a history major and eventually a lawyer.

But I just, in the last sort of three years, brought music back to my life. I have a teacher out of New York City who teaches me on Zoom, and I'm working on a very difficult piece, and that is something I do every day.

Do I get paid for it? No. Is it part of who I am? Yes, it's one of my talents. So not everything has to go into the. Into that bucket of career. I think the.

The first step is to allow yourself to become vulnerable. Know it's going to take a little bit of time and then just start to sort through the ideas. But starting with one question. What brings you energy?

Speaker A: 00:20:51

Right. So an important question for me, when you talked about that. So letting go of something and then who am I if I'm not an environmental lawyer anymore?

So that was really tough for me as well. So, okay, I'm not a geophysicist anymore. Who am I? I don't know at all. So suddenly you lose a big, big part of your identity.

And that is really, really hard and painful. And as I said, like, your whole LinkedIn network suddenly is totally the wrong people.

Speaker B: 00:21:29

Yes. You're like, what happened?

Speaker A: 00:21:33

So what is your.

I remember I have had this image on myself, and I use it to this day that I have like my geophysicist part of me still exists, but it's like a thick, beautiful book that I just put up on the shelf behind me. And then I can take it down if I want to and use it if I want to, but it's there, but it's not like it's not the only thing I am anymore.

But what's your advice for people who struggle with that identity bit?

Speaker B: 00:22:07

Oh, it's such a great question, this idea of identity, because I have a 12 year old now and she's in that space of figuring out her identity. So I'm watching her. And when you're at that age, you're really putting it on like you're not pretending you are. This is who I am.

And so you see the very beginnings and we all went through that, right? When you became, you know, a 12 year old, a 13 year old, a 14 year old, then you go to college. And all along the way there were.

Speaker A: 00:22:40

These.

Speaker B: 00:22:43

Measures of success that society frankly is the one like. And they're not bad, but they're pretty typical. They're around school and achievement and education and your job and recognition.

So all those things, right? And that gets really cultivated within you from a very early age, starting with your grades.

And then you are taught if you don't get a good grade, then you need to move your grade up, you need to do better. And you know, for most of the people I coach, it's going to college. Although that's now increasingly being, you know, changed.

People are starting to think differently about college. But you know, it's about growing your knowledge, your skills, your abilities so that you can go into some sort of career.

Because we all, most of us are get a job and then it's about your job and your job becomes who you are. And so it is built into us, our DNA.

We are, I am a lawyer, I am a doctor, I am a waitress, I'm a pilot, I am a geophysicist, I'm a campaigner, whatever it is. And then it becomes your identity and it's built into you for years and years and years, maybe decades.

And then suddenly, you know, some people go all the way through, but frankly, when my, when my dad went to work, it was, he worked at the same place in the US federal government for 35 years and that's what he did. My mom's sort of the same, she was also federal government and she was there for several decades.

And that's kind of the way it was in the 70s and 80s. But nowadays that's not what Gen Y and millennials, that's not what they want. They want to change.

They want to see a dynamic career with lots of changes. So the great news is that we don't really need to stick to the same career. We can make changes.

And in fact, the younger generations are kind of encouraging that kind of change.

But we really have to grapple with this idea of identity, because who you are isn't really your career at the end of the day, we think it is, but it's actually identity is your character. It's who you are in terms of how you show up.

And in fact, there's really interesting research out there on character, the character strengths, if you will.

And when you are connecting back to character, as in your values and who you are as a person, that is a lot more about who you are and your identity and your happiness and your fulfillment, more so than like some specific skill that you may have acquired or even some knowledge that you have. That's great to get those.

And you, like, you say you've got a binder, you've got a chapter of your life, and you say, in that chapter of my life, I learned you physics. But your character is really what we want to pay attention to.

And your character includes these strengths of these superpowers which can be transferred and moved to the next place. It's just that we don't shine a big light on that very much. I think we have maybe as a society become very focused on. And there's a reason for it.

I understand. We are very focused on skills and we are very focused on knowledge. And that's what what school teaches us, like how to do X.

But then we have somehow now made that into who we are, when in fact, who you are is probably more about your essential character and these sort of, like I say, these talents, which really are more about less about knowledge and skills and more about who you are as a person. And those transfer with you throughout the course of your life. True.

Speaker A: 00:27:27

So I'm wondering about this burnout part, because now, these days, maybe especially these days, I'm not sure, but I know so many people who suffer from burnout. Either they have gone through it, recovered, hopefully, or they are in the middle of it.

So what do you see as maybe first of all, is the main reason that we are missing a piece in the puzzle, or is it something else?

Is it that all the external forces and maybe it's a combination, and then also how I haven't gone through it Myself, But I see that it is hard to recover and, like, move on. It takes time. So how to recover from it, how to move forward?

Speaker B: 00:28:28

Yeah, burnout is, you know, I think it's now recognized by international organizations as, you know, something that we're seeing more and more and more as a sort of medical condition. It really is like it get to a place where it's so serious, you have to, you know, seek medical care or you.

I've certainly had clients that are in that space, or certainly you need a break because the burnout's so significant and there are a lot of causes for it.

I'll start by saying that this isn't true for everyone, but there has been some research on burnout where when you're in the wrong role, like, you're every day not working in a space of strength or capability, you're working in a place where you don't feel.

You feel weak, where you don't feel strong, you don't feel capable, that if you're doing that day after day after day, that that will lead more quickly to burnout than if you're in a role that is more aligned with who you are. It's not the only reason. I mean, there's definitely situations where people are working a lot. There's also toxic work environments.

I have heard plenty about very, very, very difficult cultures. We're going into work and interacting with toxic bosses or co workers can just absolutely, completely drive burnout. So there can be different causes.

But I see this in a lot of my own clients, that they are every day asked to work and do things that are not in their space of strengths. They're basically asked to operate in a place of weakness. And they're just. They're.

They're doing it, and they may even be high achievers, but they're not. They're. They're drained.

And so the difference between this is why I care deeply about career alignment, which really is like working in roles that play to your strengths.

So if you're working in a role where maybe you're doing fine, like, you have the skills, you have the knowledge, but you don't feel strong, you just don't feel strong in that role at all. You show up, you do the best you can, but you are drained. And the big signal is that you. The activities and the tasks in front of you drain you.

You're actually not energized. And so this is what I see with my clients as they come and we do a little bit of work together.

And then I ask them what percentage of your job energizes you and what percentage of your job drains you?

And more often than not, because they've come to work with me, they'll say something like 70% of my job drains me every day and only 25% energizes me. And so the strategy there isn't to quit necessarily when you're a white collar worker. And many of the people I work with are.

And this is even true for a blue collar worker or someone who's more in a service based industry. We all have incredible power to deploy how we do our jobs. We are not robots. We're given the general role and then we're at.

We can deploy them based on our abilities, but we're not told how to do our jobs. We have flexibility. And in fact, the amount of flexibility we have to deploy our jobs is very significant.

We have probably the amount of variance that we have in terms of impact on how we deploy our job is about 70%. So we have this ability to actually figure out how we deploy our tasks, how we engage with people, and how we even cognitively think about our jobs.

So when we actually employ or take advantage of that variability, that ability to control how we deliver our jobs, we can actually move what might be 25% of energy in our job up. Because what we're doing is we're choosing how to deploy our job. We're not saying we're not going to do our job.

We're still doing the basic core approaches, but we change how we deploy it.

And when I have worked with clients on that, and it's called job crafting, by the way, and you can get a degree in job crafting, if you can believe it, but it's a whole world.

It's a whole world job crafting, which is figuring out how do you craft your role so that you're bringing your best self, you're bringing your strengths, you're bringing your energy to how you do your work every day. And when people move that energizing work from like 25% of their day to 50% of their day or even higher, then guess what happens?

The burnout goes down. Because they have made fundamental changes to how they deploy their role. Here's an example.

A lot of people that I have coached don't love getting in front of big groups and running a group meeting. It's just not energizing to them. Some people love that, but other people don't. The way they really love to work with people is one to one.

But the way They've deployed, their job is they have these group meetings, constant group meetings, all the time. And you need to have some group meetings.

But sometimes some of the leaders I coach there are literally almost every hour of their day is filled with group meetings. So they're drained by the end of the day.

So when we start to do job crafting, what we might do is replace some of those group meetings with one to ones.

And those one to one meetings are more energizing, they're more successful, they can bring their strengths to the meeting and what happens is that they suddenly are more energized, they're having a greater impact, they've reduced the number of group meetings on their calendar and they're actually doing a better job, but they're ultimately more fulfilled. That's just one small job crafting strategy that I've seen clients use. It depends on who they are and what their sort of natural capabilities are.

But we, what we do is we don't do any. We don't, we don't explore the outer limits of.

We just, we just, oh, I guess I should do it that way because that's how my colleague did or my boss did it. And we don't explore that variability or that flexibility.

And there's so much opportunity to make a job that might be really draining into a less draining job and maybe even an energizing job, depending on whether that opportunity is there.

Speaker A: 00:35:26

But you also, like, another group I was thinking about is the people who work in, like the work that you came from actually in very high impact. And I'm a bit like saying impact because what is actually impact? That's also a question.

But people working like from their heart and trying to do something to make the world better can also experience a high degree of burnout because they may feel that they always work uphill. They have so many roadblocks in the way. And it's hard work, it's very difficult many times. So how do you see that?

And do you have a lot of clients also coming from that space?

Speaker B: 00:36:22

Yes.

And in fact, right now it's very draining because of the situation we're in and entire policy frameworks are being destroyed right in front of our very eyes.

And so, you know, there was a lot of hope and growth and progress under the Biden administration and now entire programs, like programs have been built over the period of decades are being destroyed. So yes, I mean, I. But it's not just that. It's, you know, we've been. The threat of climate change has been there for Decades.

And those have been working on it. It's a very, very tough, tough, tough, tough subject.

Because while we have made progress, we haven't made the progress that we really need to make in order to really get ahead of this particular situation. Now, even some of that progress that some would argue is too marginal or not enough is being destroyed.

But here's what we understand from the research, and this is really, really important.

Working in a space of passion, like something you really care about, whether it's climate change or protecting animals, or you're working for a company that you feel like is really doing the right thing, you could call any one of those passion. I'm here because I feel passionate, but passion is not the same as fulfillment. Fulfillment. Fulfillment is personal.

So, sure, if you want to say, I want to work for an organization that has a great mission, by all means, do that. But if you're telling me that working for an organization with a great mission is going to equal fulfillment, I'm going to tell you you're wrong.

It's not where fulfillment comes from. Fulfillment, according to the research, comes from the activities of your day are in your strength zone.

So you have a workday or a work week that allows you to bring your natural talents to work. So for some people, that is the ability to really connect with other people and help them reach their full potential, which I've already mentioned.

For other people, it's their incredible ability to do deep research and analytics. For other people, it is about creating a program or a process that really works.

And for others, it's about building an engineer, some sort of product that is useful.

So what we know from the research is that when we're actually filling our days with activities, as in the minutes and the hours of our day are filled with the activities, that, that, that where we're really strong, where we can bring our natural talents, that's where fulfillment looks like. And we've been looking for fulfillment and the wrong places. Yes.

Speaker A: 00:39:18

Yeah, that is. That is really important. And that was, as I told you in the beginning there, that was exactly the piece that I was missing when I.

No, sustainability consulting is not for me.

Speaker B: 00:39:33

Yeah, it sounded good, right? It sounded good. I mean, that's what it is. It's sort of like that.

When I was working with that refugee family and I was working in that at the domestic violence shelter, I was like, this is really meaningful. Like, why? Why? And it was because I was helping people, but it was draining me. I was literally draining me. And I wasn't even that good at It.

I mean, I was, you know, I was helpful, but we have to like the process of career change or career pivoting or career evolution, whatever you want to call it. In my opinion, we should all be always doing it at all times.

It should not be when we hit the wall, the proverbial wall, which had to, you know, the wall had to happen for me, for me to do this. But now that I have done it, now I'm an evangelist for we should be all doing it all the time, all of us.

Not when you've gotten fired or laid off or when you start having those sort of existential conversations with yourself about who you are. It really is. You're constantly asking yourself a question, who am I? Where am I strong? What do I have to give to the world? You know, how.

How am I uniquely able to help others? And. And for me, since I've been been doing this now for a decade, I now know that there's been an evolution since I've started.

I have made changes to that because I've mastered certain things, and then I move on to something different. I have changed the people I like to help. I have gathered new skills and data, and so I've evolved. And I just think that we.

I know there's a thirst for this because people yearn for. Certainly younger generations are yearning for having some introspective thought about who they are and what their careers look like.

Unfortunately, the workplace is not caught up to that. So the workplace isn't there to foster.

Some organizations do this, but the organizations I know about, they're not really fostering that within our workforce. The workforce is. We're still in the old model of how can you help us deliver our mission to make profit or whatever. So unfortunately.

And that's true in government. I've seen that true in academia. I've seen that true in nonprofit and also in the corporate world.

Although I will say the corporate world probably is more advanced than any sector in trying to nurture its workers. It just depends on the company. Some companies are going to make those investments, and other companies are not.

But this is what the workforce is yearning for. 70% of our workforce are not engaged in their jobs globally. 70%. Why is that? Well, it's because the workplace has not kept up pace with the workforce.

So what do we do?

Well, we certainly can encourage workplace leaders to actually wake up, pay attention, and evolve their HR teams that are not really that equipped to deal with this issue. Some HR teams are, but a lot of HR teams are really just focused on benefits and, you know, sort of, I would say, low level sort of HR issues.

Some HR people are definitely what have woken up to this broader issue of career growth and development and capacity. But it's not always there because maybe the organization doesn't have it.

But what I sort of focus on is when a worker comes my way, when an employee or professional comes my way, I say you can take charge of your career. You don't have to wait for your company to wake up. You can take charge. There are lots of tools available.

But it doesn't begin with looking at what your colleague has done and going on LinkedIn and wondering what success looks like. It really is a very, very introspective, personal process that is 100% about you.

And then once you kind of get a little sense of who you are, then you can go out in the world and say, how can I best bring my superpowers and my talents to help make the world a better place, to keep me fulfilled and to create the best possible impact so that we can make, you know, so that we can create the change we want.

Speaker A: 00:43:56

Yes. So great.

As I have said a number of times in the, in the last episodes I've done, I've said that there's a, like there's a hurricane outside, so we have to talk about the weather. And with that, I mean, how are you, you are based in the U.S.

so there, it's, it's very challenging times also when it comes to people in all types of careers, I guess. But also especially perhaps people working in environmental, with environmental issues. Climate.

I heard some say that they're not even allowed to use the word climate if they work with climate. Like it sounds really strange. So how is it going?

And also if you can, if we can look at ways also for people who are experiencing this now to use it as a, like a, a way to create something better, perhaps. Is there a way?

Speaker B: 00:45:10

Yes.

Speaker A: 00:45:10

Yeah.

Speaker B: 00:45:11

right now. It's only April of: 2025

But it's been devastating and much, much, much worse than any of us could have imagined. Although many predicted accurately that this is what would happen. And it did.

I do talk every day to many people, my clients, but also prospective clients. I would say in the past six weeks I've probably talked to well over 100 people.

Many of them are federal workers who have been rift, as in fired from, from the Trump administration. And in addition to that Others that have been downsized, you know, because of their companies or their nonprofits are getting rid of programs. So.

But overall, I would say that the biggest issue right now is that the uncertainty, the constant uncertainty, because as just one example, many, many nonprofits today are expecting an executive order targeting them and their, their tax status because there's a rumor, and we already know that the administration is prepared to go after tax statuses for universities, or at least will try. And so the nonprofit, especially the climate organizations, are certainly expecting that as well. And it's not a matter of if, but when can he do it?

Well, he legally shouldn't be able to. But the problem is that we have a president who is authoritarian and seems to ignore the law.

So we're not playing the game that we've all played for decades. We've all played this game, campaign game that presumes that the opposing sides are going to play by the rules, and then suddenly we don't have that.

And, and of course, I'm an American. I was born in Washington, D.C. like, this is not my country. And it's, it's devastating. I mean, I have.

For any of your international listeners, it is devastating.

Speaker A: 00:47:51

Yeah.

Speaker B: 00:47:51

To watch your country get taken over by authoritarian leader. So it is not good. And unfortunately, it's going to get a lot worse. And I talk to my clients every day.

Many of them are in a really, really, really, really bad space. Whether they lost their job or they're fearing to lose their job, or they've worked for decades for a policy that is being deconstructed.

And the, and, and, and the, the ramifications of those things are, are, are global. I mean, in terms of loss, it is. People's lives are lost, people's.

People will likely die because of certain policies that are gonna, or already have been implemented. And so it feels like devastation. And yet it's. Every day we still live with this uncertainty of what's the next thing that's going to happen.

So I will say that what I've been talking to people about recently, as in just right before I talk to you, I had a client who was dealing with some pretty urgent issues of uncertainty is a couple things. Number one is the brain is a predictor. That's, that's what our brains do. Our brains predict. And it wants to predict. That's what it does.

Um, and in some cases, some of these really terrible predictions have become true, but in other cases, it really. We don't know. You know, we don't know if the tax statuses will be actually lost.

We don't know if certain people who have been sent to these Venezuelan prisons will actually die or lose their battles. Like, we don't actually know.

And so we really need to try to wrangle our predictive brains back a little bit because it's so uncertain and it's so chaotic. It's possible that the exact opposite of the thing that we predict will happen, like very. So we want to try to suspend that.

And while we suspend that, we want to be thoughtful and introspective and gather data and information so that we can maybe do some scenario planning. But probably more important is we all need resilience strategies. We all need these strategies that.

And I'm sure this is true for just about anyone listening to your podcast, because I'm sure everyone listening to your podcast are reasonable people who are also stressed out by what's happening, regardless of if you're in the US And I'm just noticing that people are agreeing that we need to find ways to get through this, but then we're not actually using the strategies, we're just sort of suspending ourselves in. And I was there at some point myself where I wasn't taking care of myself.

But about a month ago, I made a deliberate choice to lean in further to the resilient strategy. What do I mean by that? I mean, I mean anything I can do to feel like I can weather a storm.

And I'm glad you brought up hurricane, because that's what it is. So if you're in a storm, are you going to go about your regular day, like go outside and do planting your garden? No, because there's a storm outside.

Are you going to write your to do list and do all the same ambitious things you were going to do as if there wasn't a storm outside? No.

So what I've been talking to my clients about, and I need to tell this to myself as well, is there has to be a really strong lean in to resilient strategies, including exercise, news, free days, getting outdoors, you know, whatever it takes to get through this. Because it's not going to be short. It is going to take years. Even if he's gone, it's going to take years to undo what we're doing.

And we will do this. The great news is that Americans are furious and they are waking up and they are showing up. I live in a red state.

Every weekend there are thousands of people protesting at our legislature. When Bernie Sanders came to our town, they filled the stadium and there was 5,000 people sitting outside. I live in a red state.

The country is furious, and it's just gotten started. So I have major hope. And the reason I have hope is not because I think things will get better. It's because people are taking action.

So we need people to lean into resilience big time. And I mean it when I say that. I'm saying don't just talk about it, do it. And do it more than you ever have in your entire life.

Meditate more, exercise more, take more breaks more than you ever have. Because it is the. The environmental stress background of what's happening is oppressive. It's awful. And then simultaneously take action.

What is the action you can take for different people? It's different things. But I've learned something recently. When you are in a wishing state, you're just wishing.

When you're in a hopeful state, what hope is, is hope is wishing plus action. Yeah, Hope is wishing plus action. So you're not going to feel hopeful unless you're taking action. And so what does that look like?

It means showing up to the protests. It means writing your legislators. It means making a donation to a group that you know is fighting the good fight.

I don't care what it is, but you gotta take some sort of action. And I've been going to the protests here in Utah and it has been great. And I have other actions that I've been taking as well.

And I feel that solidarity.

But we don't want to just take action without the resilience strategy because we need to all be around to fight this because we have to come together and fight an authoritarian government. And it's going to take a lot of work and it's going to take a lot of energy and time and it's in for the long haul.

But that's kind of been where my brain. I would say a month ago I wouldn't have been able to articulate this to you because I was in a state of shock.

Speaker A: 00:54:30

Right.

Speaker B: 00:54:31

But I've been able to sort of wrangle my brain around. Okay, what is the plan now that we're in it?

Speaker A: 00:54:39

I think it's so important.

And what you said about health, taking care of your health, get out in nature, don't like, don't dismiss all that as not important because it's so important. If we lose our health or ability to think clearly, then we. We have lost. So, yes. So important.

Speaker B: 00:55:01

All of it.

Speaker A: 00:55:02

Yeah.

Speaker B: 00:55:02

Yeah.

Speaker A: 00:55:02

And you should know that I'm. And a lot of Europeans all around the globe, I'm sure, are with you in Spirit, when you, when you demonstrate and march for, for this.

So, yes, I'm, my heart is with you all the time.

Speaker B: 00:55:20

Thank you so much. I really. We hear it, we feel it.

Speaker A: 00:55:23

That's good.

Speaker B: 00:55:24

We feel it, we've noticed it because we've seen some of the, some of the things in Europe and elsewhere and people are rising up to say, we hear you, we know you're speaking, because we certainly do not want to be put into a box of how could you possibly do this? This is horrific. And yeah, so I think we're all in it for the long haul and yet we do have to live our days and we have to get through.

And so I think a day by day strategy is the way to go because, you know, I was, I was an activist for many years and I sort of burnt out on killing, trying to, you know, activism and that kind of thing. And, you know, I, even before Trump, I was, you know, killing myself, trying to try to save the world.

And then I learned, oh, wow, when I burn myself out, I can no longer help the world. So it's true.

If you do not engage in self care and build your own internal reserves to deal with any sort of stress, whether it's the Trump administration or whether it's caring for a loved one or it's, I don't know who I am and what my identity is, you still have to constantly invest everyday energy into yourself so that you can get through this beautiful and sometimes really difficult thing we call life. And if we don't make those investments, then you will burn out and you will feel lost.

But when you invest in yourself and you can stay the course, you will figure out what your role is in this world, how you're going to help people, how you're going to create impact, how you're going to fulfill, be fulfilled. And you can also weather these storms because the storms come and they go and we've seen it.

I've been around for over 50 years and it seems like they just keep coming and we just need, we need to know our plans for, you know, for how we're going to get through the storms.

Because when, when we confront the storm and, and the clouds part and it gets peaceful again, then suddenly you realize what a beautiful world we live in and what a beautiful, beautiful people we have and why we need hope. So, you know, we, we've got to invest for those, for those beautiful, peaceful days.

Speaker A: 00:57:42

Yes, so true. Your work is so important always, but especially now, I think so for all the listeners, where can they find you? And your work.

Speaker B: 00:57:55

Well you can find me on LinkedIn so my name Danielle Droich and I love connecting on LinkedIn so please reach out and I put put lots of stuff there and then my website's time4wellbeing with the number4timeforwellbeing.com right.

Speaker A: 00:58:13

I will put all the links in the show notes. I think I need to spell your last name out because can you repeat that? Drouch.

Speaker B: 00:58:23

Droidsch. Yes. My father is born in Berlin, Germany so I'm a proud firstborn daughter of a German and yeah, fled the war to come here.

But happy to, happy, happy to be here. Happy to talk to you and so grateful that we've had this opportunity to chat.

Speaker A: 00:58:46

Yes, thank you so much for taking the time and best of luck with all your work and challenging times.

Speaker B: 00:58:54

Thank you so much.

Speaker A: 00:58:56

I really believe this is one of the most important conversations of our time. How we stay well, stay true to ourselves and still show up for the world in meaningful ways.

If this topic resonated with you, I think you'll enjoy more of what I share.

Over on my substack@viklavonese.substack.com you'll find reflections, behind the scenes stories and tools for designing a life and career with purpose and energy.

And if you'd like to support podcast you, you can do that@storiesforthefuture.com support every share, review and contribution helps me keep these conversations going. Thanks so much for being here and take good care until next time.