Conversations Across the Divide: Inside Insights on Energy Transition (An EAGE Special)

EAGE Special

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So that's the first for me. But before that, hold on just a second. So we can play the intro and tell new listeners what this podcast is all about. . This is stories for the future. A podcast on a mission to get you excited and optimistic about a future full of fantastic opportunities. My name is

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So I briefly told you about the content of this next season, just before summer. I called that episode, popping the echo chambers. It has to do with exploring how we can foster a better understanding and build bridges between professionals in the oil and gas sector and those on the outside. How can we create spaces where we can actually listen and learn from each other? Without all the [00:02:00] finger-pointing shaming and blaming. I decided to dive back into some of the networks and circles.

so-called. Energy transition [: 00:03:00

interesting. It was a throwback to the old. The old days. Uh, some things had changed a lot, had not changed.

sting. Perspectives. Outwit. [: 00:04:00

I hope there's a nice, I will find even more people and even more diversity. But I think this is a good start. So sit back and open your ears and your minds and pretend you were in this huge exhibition hall bursting with people full of Stans from all the companies, lots of technology, lots of free chocolate and creative ways to serve a cup of coffee. I never got to try that. Equinox coffee, where I think you could. 3d print your face in the form or something. But okay, here we go.

that I can find for getting [: 00:05:00

Emer: Hi, my name is Eimear Castlin. I am a geoscientist and I work in sustainable geoscience research. Um, we work with researchers. Looking at climate and environmental change, , adaptation and mitigation for that. We also look at earth resources, the resources that we need, , for economically sustainable society, um, which is energy transition and raw materials.

e perception of all of these [: 00:06:00

From people outside the oil and gas industry about what is happening and what do you think What could lower the fences and remove some barriers between the outside world and an inside oil and gas industry? And also, what should people know about what is happening?

also an overarching kind of [: 00:07:00

Um, the reality inside the walls is that there's a huge amount being done. Geoscientists, I'm a geoscientist myself and I'm seeing, um, huge improvements in terms of the repurposing. of the knowledge that petroleum geoscientists have into energy transition, looking at geothermal, carbon capture and storage, looking at really, really, really complex solutions and having the capacity and capabilities to actually repurpose what their skills are into these solutions, these complex solutions that are taking a little while to get off the ground but are certainly improving and developing.

nd energy, geotechnical, um, [: 00:08:00

I think the pace of change, even from the inside of these world's fields. a little bit too slow, a lot too slow. Um, but there's certainly efforts and, you know, a question that we were asked about how complicated or simple this is. I really feel certainly when you're in the thick of it and understanding what the barriers are, it is complex.

ent for us than it is for, , [: 00:09:00

Um, this is where we're talking about, , energy for, , environmental sustainability, looking at equity and security. So these are three things. , that are constantly being kind of observed and watched. , sometimes it feels like, from my point of view anyway, that we jump from one corner of that triangle to another, but it is a triangle which requires that balance.

So we always need to be, you know, we can't forget about when we have a situation like we've had in the last two years. And we focus on energy security. That means we cannot stop looking at the environmental sustainability. All these things are hugely important. So, yeah, I think a pace of change certainly needs to be elevated.

conferences, which reflects [: 00:10:00

First of all. For for other industries, public and public and meet other industries that can be policy makers can be civil society at large to see actually what's what's happening and the complexities of of of getting advancing the energy transition. But I think potentially even more importantly, opening the doors.

energy companies, et cetera, [: 00:11:00

You know, the sector is, as you, as we move towards the energy transition, we're coming closer to communities, to society, and potentially to even more opposition in terms of getting low carbon projects off the ground. So that's where we need to be better at engaging, be better at translating what geothermal energy is, what the benefits are of it to society.

The same for for, for wind, for carbon capture and storage as well. These are all things that are, are not understood by society. And um, yeah, we have the, the capacity, I think to be better able to, to explain that.

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I'm happy to share that EMA is coming back in a later episode where she will. Share more about her work and her personal journey. And also about a super interesting project she has been involved with. Which is mapping geoscience to the sustainability goals. Do you scientists do, you know, can be used for so many things.

Just a wait and see.

The next voice is also from the I crack team. And I will let her introduce herself.

Hannah Binner: So my name is Hanna Binner and I'm a geoscientist, but I'm also the educational engagement officer in ICRAG, which is a research center in Ireland, um, all to do with applied geoscience.

How do you think, That [: 00:13:00

Their concerns and get a chance to think about it a little bit differently. So one thing we do is we go into schools and engage with, uh, teenagers and they get to develop their own project in an overarching theme. And a lot of them would pick like, um, local pollution or they might pick, um, yeah, energy transition, geothermal energy.

y wouldn't necessarily have. [: 00:14:00

So a lot of teachers as part of the continuing professional development training, they have to constantly upskill. And I guess it's limited in a sense of what is on offer for them, because it has to be a certified course. But we were able to do this. So we pair up teachers and geoscientists, and they can just have a conversation and develop a lesson plan from that.

So again, we're reaching teachers and schools. In a way that they wouldn't normally because some teachers may have left their own education years and years ago, and we can't really ask them to do this in their free time, so we get our experts in and again, they can explore as much or as little of a topic as they want, but it is again bringing that conversation in into the classroom, and then we do that also at public festivals and science shows.

park. And we bring a bit of [: 00:15:00

And if we weren't doing oil and gas exploration, we wouldn't have plastic products. So you're wet. So that you need to swim in Ireland comfortably in the sea and all of that kind of stuff. Like we might not like the idea, but it's become such a part of our daily life that we just want to connect people back to that.

t to tell them and not to go [: 00:16:00

It's an open conversation. So we call this co design co creation and we come in and we might breach a subject, but then they get to ask questions. They get to explore it. And like I said, if they don't. They don't have to necessarily agree with everything and they can do their presentation on that or they can voice their opinions.

And some people do leave our stand at a festival and just go. I'm still not convinced, but at least we've put the thought in there and we've We've opened the discussion because it's actually biggest one if they come up to you and talk to you That's already the first barrier broken It's when they don't even talk to you and as soon as you mention what you're working on they walk the other way that's the problem so in that way we we engage with them just where they're at and Just listen to their concerns in the first place and then try and explain it with Science and facts in a way that actually doesn't bore them out of their minds either So that's pretty much.

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And did you know we actually dug this up in Ireland? This is from the coast. They're like, wow, that's amazing. So there is a big disconnect between like what's actually out there and what they're actually exposed to. And the same thing with like, you showed a periodic table on a table, maybe to a bunch of 10 year olds, and then you.

tract concept and when we do [: 00:18:00

It's so close to home This isn't something that's happening in another part of the world. This It's Irish rocks sometimes, Irish research, and they're just amazed that this is something people can work on, because they don't think exciting or fun for geoscience, they think rocks are boring and old fashioned, but it's come so far, and when we actually do tell them what we do, they're like, wow, that's amazing, I never knew you could do that for your job.

You actually get to study geothermal energy, wind energy, you get to look at these rocks and find out how Ireland What Ireland looked like thousands of years ago or millions of years ago, and it's that kind of bringing that back into Yeah into the conversation. It's not just yeah, not just boring or Unrelevant irrelevant.

Is the role of geoscience in [: 00:19:00

So, as you understand by now, I really like, I crack. You should look it up. It's great stuff. I will put the link in the show notes. And, , I have one more voice from there and to just make it easy, I found another HANA as well. This time, we talk about how data once used for mining is now being repurposed. For renewable energy, more specifically. Geothermal energy.

te some like, um, models for [: 00:20:00

So actually my, most of my data, like the boreholes and the seismic, the petrophysics, has all been done, uh, for the mining, uh, industry in Ireland, which is all zinc. Zinc and lead mines, um, is like the predominant mines there.

Um, but there's a lot of like, it's really dense boreholes and there's a lot of good seismics, um, in specific areas. And all of these have been done with the mining, uh, for the materials in, in mind, but they are super useful for our new projects. based on geothermal. Yeah. Interesting. So, so the conversation we had here today was very much about the, um, mistrust and misconceptions, um, from the outside of the oil and gas industry.

And now we're being here [: 00:21:00

So to start with the mines, I suppose there's still a negative opinion towards mining and a lot of the people outside. Um, the geosciences won't understand that even for phones and stuff, where they won't have a phone without mining for these, uh, elements and different materials and hospitals and all of that stuff.

so comfortably without this [: 00:22:00

Um, so we can't just stop oil and gas straight away. And so we can just like, I suppose. Yeah, the word transition. Yes. Go from the oil and gas, slowly move away from it as we create new technologies and new sustainable energies.

And also what she said about [: 00:23:00

One of the aspects of the energy transition that I'm most excited about. And that I feel we need to talk a lot more about is how. Technology skills, data, people, et cetera, from the oil and gas sector can be used or repurposed. To speed up the transition. Not only to speed that up, but actually to make it more enjoyable, to talk about and work with for everyone. My next soundbite is from a professor at the Delft university of technology.

ddresses exactly this topic. [: 00:24:00

Sebastian Geiger: My name is Sebastian Geiger. I am the professor for sustainable geoenergy at the Delft University of Technology and I conduct research and teach on how we can characterize the geology in the subsurface more effectively and faster to accelerate the energy transition by scaling geothermal energy, CO2 storage projects, hydrogen storage projects.

What are some innovative technologies or practices in the oil and gas industry that you think deserve more public recognition? So I think what we can learn from the oil and gas industry and as we are trying to accelerate the energy transition by delivering new targets for example for geothermal energy or CO2 storage or hydrogen storage It's the way we tease out new ideas.

using geophysical techniques [: 00:25:00

And the emphasis here is on quickly, because if you want to be net zero by 2050, you want to have geothermal energy. CO2 storage, hydrogen storage at the scale we need it to be net zero by 2050. We don't have the time to reinvent the wheels. We really need to think about adapting, repurposing tools like seismic data.

using within geoscience for [: 00:26:00

So it would be quite easy to adapt them. Exactly. So these, these have been developed and been used and successfully used very successfully used for many decades sometimes for 50 years and they are Yeah, the idea is how do we make them, how do we make them more cost effective, how we can make them, um, use them in, in situations with less data available, because a geothermal project is not going to be economically as lucrative as an oil and gas project.

So we need to think about how we make them more cost effective, how, simply how we adapt and repurpose, refit existing tools. That is very exciting, I think. Another question for you. What do you think is the most significant barrier to better understanding between energy professionals and environmental advocates?

is, and it's perhaps a very [: 00:27:00

And actually all what we all want to do is achieve the same goal, which is sustainable future, where children can prosper, where the goal south is going to prosper. We may have slightly different ideas of the not slightly different ideas, how we can get there, and we need to adapt our ideas. But [00:28:00] it all starts from basis of trust.

And I think that trust at the moment is often lacking. Yes, biggest barrier. So, so the, the, we, I think everyone agrees on the goal and where we disagree or, um, is the, the best ways to reach this goal.

I don't think there's, there is a server. bullets and they're going to be huge, ethical, more delamorous. Um, and where we need to make some form of compromise at the end of the day, be it in the way we produce energy, the way we consume energy, the way we change our own way of living, that we become more energy efficient.

ehind and focus on learning, [: 00:29:00

Oh, yes. I liked that. Focus on learning rather than educating. And figure out how to find some common ground instead of always coming back to the disagreements.

So, where are the people actually working in the oil and gas companies you might ask? Well, here is one of them. This is Sigrid. from Ecuador.

Sigrid: My name is Sigrid Borten Toven. I work in Equinor. I've been working there for twenty seven years and now I'm heading up a unit within the low carbon solutions part of the company. So in your view, what are the most effective ways to foster better understanding and dialogue between professionals in the oil and gas sector and the general public?

r people within the industry [: 00:30:00

What would you really like people outside the industry to know about the work that you are doing? What do you think get lost in translation, maybe through media or other outlets? I think one of the reasons is that people do not listen as soon as somebody from the industry coming.

ave so many really excellent [: 00:31:00

And these are complex topics. It's not a simple yes or no answer or it's not simple. You can just stop doing oil and gas. Yeah, you can reduce it, but you cannot stop it to have this kind of conversations with More than just headlines. That would be really good. Can you see any arenas where we can have more of these conversations?

t is, what is it that we are [: 00:32:00

And then of course the media itself needs to be thought about what's going on. But then we are back to the dilemma that I meet that, but you are working in the industry. How can we trust what you are saying because you are brainwashed. So it's, that is kind of the dilemmas that I see.

Do you notice something interesting? All these people coming to the issues from different angles are actually more or less saying the same. We need better dialogues, more knowledge, better understanding. And last but not least more trust. If the industry keeps being met with this trust, no matter what they do or say. It must be really hard to take part in the conversation.

ng the word on how important [: 00:33:00

Vicy: so my name is Vicki O'Connor and, uh, I have a voluntary role as co CEO of a nonprofit organization called Geology for Global Development. So, geology for Global Development was founded back in 2015, uh, by a, a geoscience researcher who.

just realized that, um, often geoscientists just sit in a bubble and don't kind of get out there and explain the role of geoscience to, you know, advancing sustainable development. And he was particularly interested in the role of geoscience in, um, helping society achieve the UN Sustainable Development Goals.

ally the other SDGs as well, [: 00:34:00

I think this is such important work, because it's, at least in Norway, it's often. Geology and geophysics is very much related to oil and gas, but there's so much more. So can you mention a few things, like just some examples? Because the audience is mostly not involved in oil and gas, so just to give them a few ideas.

e infrastructure that you're [: 00:35:00

So, I think, yeah, it's interesting the work we do takes us into lots of forums where often we're the only geoscientists in the room. And we're often asked, you know, why are you here? But then we say, well actually, you know, if you look at, you know, the plan for, um, you know, the nationally determined contributions for a country, for example.

Often they haven't been critiqued by geoscientists, so people are proposing things around, you know, say it's the development of wind resources, but no one's thought about the critical mineral, mineral aspect of it. So it's understanding the complexity of air science and how it actually comes to bear on these different, you know, development plans that individual countries or regions are developing that, , is, you know, George has kind of forgotten from that conversation.

So that's what we do. We try and give a voice to the geoscientists and the geoscience community. in those international forums to explain why, , we are critical for, the future of humanity, essentially.

what a great way to end this [: 00:36:00

And with this, we say goodbye. And thank you to that. E a G E annual conference in Oslo. Thank you for letting me come back to my old sandbox. It was fun. Really interesting. Generated many new thoughts and some of the old feelings. But most of all, I'm so grateful to the wonderful people. Taking part in the panel conversation and the people giving me their thoughts and ideas for this episode. Full episodes and conversations with panel participants will follow later among them.

e industry a few years back. [: 00:37:00

And I will talk to you soon.