Episode 93
Transformational Leadership for Sustainability: A Deep Dive into the TLFS program with Karen O'Brien and Idun Aune
🌍 What This Episode Is About
In this episode, we explore the Transformational Leadership for Sustainability (TLFS) program – a unique and powerful approach to leadership that begins not with strategy, but with self-awareness and values. Together with co-founder Karen O’Brien and alumna Idun Aune, we discuss how this values-based program helps people from all walks of life activate their full potential to lead change from the inside out. If you’re looking for a deeper, more integrated way to make a difference, this one’s for you.
🔑 Key Takeaways
- You matter more than you think – Lasting change starts with who you are, not just what you do
- Three spheres of transformation – Practical (actions), Political (systems), Personal (values & beliefs)
- TLFS is experiential, not just theoretical – You work on a real-life initiative while practicing in community
- Values-based leadership fuels resilience – When your work aligns with your values, energy and impact increase
- The personal is not optional – Bringing your whole self to your work creates deeper, systemic change
- Meetings can be rituals – Simple shifts in how we meet and check in with each other can create lasting culture change
- It's for everyone – TLFS is sector-agnostic and globally relevant – whether you're in business, education, design, or activism
- Collective agency matters – True transformation comes from individuals working together, grounded in shared values
📅 Next TLFS Program Starts: September 2025
- 3 in-person modules (Oslo area) + weekly peer triads
- Themes: Being the Change | Designing Change | Leading Change
- Open to international participants (English-language program)
- Hosted in a beautiful nature setting outside Oslo
📚 Links and Resources
🔗 TLFS Program Info & Registration
📘 Karen O’Brien’s Book: You Matter More Than You Think
🌐 Respira – Planet-Centric Design and Strategy
📧 Contact
✨ Want More Future-Friendly Content?
Want to be a guest on Stories for the future: Beyond the Bubble? Send Veslemoy Klavenes-Berge a message on PodMatch.
Mentioned in this episode:
Thanks to Creative Space for supporting this episode! Visit getcreativespace.com
Transcript
Hey there and welcome back to Stories for the Future.
Speaker A:I'm Veslume and today I have something really special for you.
Speaker A: You know, back in: Speaker A:And also we had to learn how to do our meetings on Zoom.
Speaker A:But for me, this is also that I did something that to a large degree shifted how I think about my role in the world.
Speaker A:I enrolled in this program called Transformational Leadership for sustainability, or TLFS for short.
Speaker A:This program is run by SeaChange, a values based consultancy in Oslo that helps individuals and organizations create systemic sustainability transformations.
Speaker A:TLFS taught me that the most powerful leadership comes from aligning who you truly are with the change you want to see in the world.
Speaker A:It's about working simultaneously on three the practical stuff we need to get done, the political systems and structures that either help or hinder us, and most importantly, the personal sphere, our beliefs, values, and how we show up.
Speaker A:If you're listening to this podcast, chances are you care deeply about our planet and our collective future.
Speaker A:And you probably sometimes wonder, what can I actually do about all this?
Speaker A:Well, today I'm talking with two fantastic women who can answer that question.
Speaker A:First, we have Karen o' Brien, who's a professor in the Department of Sociology and Human Geography at the University of Oslo and co founder of SeaChange.
Speaker A:Karen has participated in multiple reports for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, ipcc, and she's also an author with her latest book being you Matter More Than youn Think, Quantum Social Change for a Thriving World and Climate, a book that basically revolutionizes how we think about our capacity for creating changes.
Speaker A:And then my other guest is Idun Avne, who took the TLFS program herself and is now applying these tools as a founder of respira, helping businesses build planet centric mindsets.
Speaker A:You might notice we start this conversation a bit differently, with each of us sharing what we stand for.
Speaker A:Don't worry if that seems a bit mysterious.
Speaker A:It will all make perfect sense as we dive deeper into the conversation.
Speaker A:Because one of the core principles of TLFS is understanding that lasting change happens when we ground our actions in our deepest values and motivations.
Speaker A:This program and this episode is about recognizing that you, yes, you, the one listening right now, have more power to create positive change than you probably realize.
Speaker A:And in times like this, that's exactly the kind of hope and agency we all need.
Speaker A:I absolutely know that you will enjoy this one, so let's dive in.
Speaker B:First of all welcome to both of you.
Speaker B:Eden and Karen.
Speaker C:Thanks, thanks.
Speaker D:Nice to be here with you.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I'm so, so excited about this conversation.
Speaker B:And actually I wonder, since we're talking about TLFS program in this episodes and we have a certain way of starting conversations, maybe we should do it like that.
Speaker B:So maybe start with you, Karen.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Hi, my name is Karen and I stand for oneness, integrity and full potential for myself and others.
Speaker C:Hi, I'm Edith.
Speaker C:I stand for equity, curiosity and passion for myself and others.
Speaker B:And my name is Vesh Lemai and I stand for compassion, curiosity and connectedness for myself and others.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker B:That's a good start.
Speaker B:So let's start with the beginning and the foundations.
Speaker B:Karen, for those who haven't heard about this program, Transformational Leadership for Sustainability, from now on, we will call it TLFS because it's a little bit easier to say, what is this program about?
Speaker D:Well, TLFS is a leadership program, but it's very different from most leadership programs because it really focuses on strategic action to produce results based on who we are and what we care about.
Speaker D:Not just for ourselves, but for everyone.
Speaker D:So it's really a way of being in the world and a way of showing up to create results for sustainability.
Speaker D:And that's what we're concerned about.
Speaker B:Yes, definitely a very important topic these days or for a long time.
Speaker B:How long have you been running this program in SeaChange?
Speaker D: We've run it since: Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Annually, once a year.
Speaker D: cohort starting in September: Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So where can you take us through a little bit of how this program got started?
Speaker B:Like where did the idea come from?
Speaker B:And also your collaboration with Monica Sharma, who is an important person in this program.
Speaker D:Yeah, well, I started, I met Monica Sharma probably about 15 years ago after I read an article of hers on personal to planetary transformation.
Speaker D:And I was very inspired because she had been working with the United Nations Development Program in scaling out HIV AIDS treatments and dealing with health issues, but at scale in like 60 countries.
Speaker D:So I contacted her and I was like, I'm really interested in how we would use this approach for my problem, which is climate change.
Speaker D:And so we started working to together and her conscious full spectrum response that she had developed in the United nations was then translated into the three spheres of transformation which I've been using for, you know, like, to understand transformations within my academic research career.
Speaker D:But it was about, you know, maybe 10 years ago or so that I realized that it's much more than just A framework for understanding.
Speaker D:It's a framework for action.
Speaker D:So I attended a course that she was running with the US National Park Service in Colorado, and it was the Inventory and Monitoring division.
Speaker D:So people representing national parks from all over the United States.
Speaker D:And I went there to be a fly on the wall and see what this actually worked.
Speaker D:But as you realize in the program, you can't be a fly in the wall.
Speaker D:You have to fully participate.
Speaker D:And so in doing that, I saw how powerful it is in terms of when we connect who we are with what we do and design strategically to create that there's so much potential.
Speaker D:And that untapped potential, I think is so needed at this time.
Speaker D:So when I got back to Norway, I said, we have to actually run this in Norway.
Speaker D:And we did it through sea change because it much easier than at the University of Oslo or things.
Speaker D:And we were really interested in SeaChange, like, how can we work with society to generate transformations?
Speaker D:So that really we had people coming from the National Park Service to help guide us in the beginning and working with Monica.
Speaker D: d the first cohort in Oslo in: Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B: en the program myself back in: Speaker B:And I know that like just.
Speaker B:Just coming home, trying to.
Speaker B:Explaining.
Speaker B:To explain it to my family, what is this about?
Speaker B:It can be.
Speaker B:Can be challenging to kind of.
Speaker B:Because it goes so deep and it's so much so I think always it's so great with examples.
Speaker B:So this is where you come in Eden, because you have also taken this program.
Speaker B:So to start with, how did you find it and what drew you to it?
Speaker C:What normally happens actually is alumni recruitment, in a sense.
Speaker C:I was talking to a previous participant and she shared so vividly about participating that I couldn't really not go myself.
Speaker C:I'm kind of a learning junkie.
Speaker C:So I've tried a lot of different learning programs and I really thrive.
Speaker C:Curiosity is one of my core values.
Speaker C:I'm really trying to learn always.
Speaker C:And I was looking for something that was a bit deeper, connected to the values.
Speaker C:And I was on my own kind of shift in career in a sense that I've been working as a designer for many years.
Speaker C:And then I took the leap of saying to my managers that I really wanted to focus on connecting design and sustainability for making a difference.
Speaker C:And I was on that journey already when I discovered SeaChange and I discovered TLFS.
Speaker C:So it was a good moment for me because I was also in a role where I was responsible for Activating the organization and really shifting the mindset in the organization that I was working with, which was a consultancy, a global consultancy.
Speaker C:So having that kind of backing or deeper understanding and the toolbox to really integrate into my work as I had kind of the two hats, both changing the organization that I was in, but also helping other organizations to change.
Speaker C:And it really fit the bill in that sense for me.
Speaker B:You have both used these tools in your own company, Respira, and also in larger organizations.
Speaker B:So can you maybe mention some ways, examples of moments or tools, something that really kind of helped you in the work and maybe shifted also the way that you think about your work?
Speaker C:Yeah, I think Karen mentioned it.
Speaker C:The three spheres, I think has been very essential.
Speaker C:It's kind of like one of the really core tools in the program.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And there was something that kind of clicked in me.
Speaker C:I've always been very systemically focused and value driven, but it's been kind of separate in one way.
Speaker C:And I think what is really unique with the three spheres perspective is the understanding of that you have to think both on the systemic shifts and the values together with the solution at the same time.
Speaker C:And that's when it works, that's when it becomes lasting.
Speaker C:And some of the learnings that I got was also, I wish I had them before because I was designing a learning program for a large organization and focusing a lot on that experience and really motivating people, building agency.
Speaker C:But one of the components that I realized afterwards, because I learned it from the program, was that the systemic shift that was needed in order for the people to come back in their organizations and actually do the change, it was missing a bit, that part that is actually like the policy change that is needed.
Speaker C:So what happened was people were inspired, but they came back to the same system.
Speaker C:And because we hadn't really unlocked the systemic issues of being able to be different in their workplace, we didn't maybe receive or achieve the same results as we would have if we had designed that previously.
Speaker C:And that was the learning that I got kind of, oh, I wish I took this program earlier.
Speaker C:But it was a good learning for like the coming programs that I was focusing on.
Speaker C:And then when I was helping other companies as well, really focusing on like, okay, we can do a learning program, but we need to make sure we have a long tail.
Speaker C:We need to make sure we are looking at the rituals to pick up the learning continuously afterwards, that it's not just a one off.
Speaker C:Because if we want the change to last, we need to really look at the systemic Lens as well.
Speaker C:So I think that's, that's one thing.
Speaker B:Yeah, I have some follow up questions on that.
Speaker B:But before we go there, maybe because I am now sitting with the three spheres in front of me because, but because this is an audio only podcast, maybe you, Karen, can, can you take us through the three spheres and how that works?
Speaker D:Yeah, well, the three spheres are the practical, the political and the personal spheres.
Speaker D:And they're kind of concentric.
Speaker D:So the practical sphere is like in the center, in the bullseye.
Speaker D:And this represent, presents the behaviors and the technologies, the things that we really need to move to create the results that we want in the world.
Speaker D:And it's very measurable.
Speaker D:These are the outcomes that we really are striving for, and yet we're not achieving them.
Speaker D:And it's often because we're not seeing what we refer to as the political sphere, which are the systems and the structures that Eden just talked about.
Speaker D:It's the rules, social and cultural norms, rules, regulations, the policies, the things that either can constrain what we can do or enable what we can do.
Speaker D:And it's really, it is where a lot of times we get the conflicts, we get the, you know, like very systems get stuck there, but it's also where new things emerge.
Speaker D:And that political sphere is really important.
Speaker D:But as we see everywhere in the world, there's increasing polarization, increasing paralysis and very little happening.
Speaker D:So outside of that political sphere is the personal sphere, which we refer to as the individual and shared beliefs, values, worldviews and paradigms that influence how we show up in the system and how do we relate to the system, what are our goals for the outcomes.
Speaker D:And it really is about who are we individually and collectively.
Speaker D:And that provides the entry point for the TLFS course, because you enter through these universal values, values that apply to everybody regardless, even if they don't care about them.
Speaker D:But equity, dignity, compassion, justice, curiosity, all of these things that we can say that it's not just me, it's everyone.
Speaker D:And so that gives us an entry point like a grounding into how do I show up in the political sphere, how do I create the results in the practical sphere that I need?
Speaker D:Recognizing that these are always connected to each other, that we need this conscious full spectrum response, a holistic response.
Speaker D:Rather than only working in the practical sphere, only in the political sphere, or only in the personal sphere.
Speaker B:Isn't this personal aspect very often forgotten?
Speaker B:I mean, like when you're in a big organization or anywhere, we forget that we're all people trying to do all these changes.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that is.
Speaker B:That was like one of the main aha moments for me.
Speaker B:I think this really strong personal element.
Speaker B:How is this like the work that we do on our self when we're trying to make all these outer changes?
Speaker B:Why is that so important?
Speaker D:Yeah, I think that we tend to disconnect who we are from how we show up in the work that we're doing.
Speaker D:And it creates a tension and a lack of integrity because it's, you know, we're often.
Speaker D:We don't necessarily connect that, you know, what we deeply care about to what we're actually doing.
Speaker D:And it gives us a lot more power and it makes us more whole.
Speaker D:We show up very fully and grounded in what is it makes.
Speaker D:As Eden was saying, that these are more enduring shifts rather than just non last thing.
Speaker D:You come back from a workshop or another leadership course or something like that, you feel really good and motivated, but nothing.
Speaker D:It's very much the same.
Speaker D:You're constrained within the same systems and structures.
Speaker D:And this approach is really saying that these systems and structures really aren't.
Speaker D:They can be shifted because they're about how we individually and as a group show up together.
Speaker D:So the bringing that personal in.
Speaker D:It sounds very scary to many, but as we start to get used to saying my name is I stand for, we start to realize that collectively we're all.
Speaker D:We all care about the same things, we all want to move in the same direction.
Speaker D:And it gives us a language and an approach for creating the sustainability at scale.
Speaker D:And I think that's where it's really important that we are all working together.
Speaker D:Even though we seem like we're on different projects, different sectors, different backgrounds and.
Speaker B:Yeah, yes, exactly.
Speaker B:And that was what I was thinking about when you shared Eden, because for me, I was working on a solo project when I attended the program, so it's only me that I have to kind of get on board.
Speaker B:But for you, you have tried both then?
Speaker B:Just both in your own company and on your website with Raspira.
Speaker B:I see that you use the system in the way that you speak.
Speaker B:But I can just imagine if you're in a bigger organization and you try to implement this way.
Speaker B:Just starting a meeting with.
Speaker B:Can I get everybody to start with what their values are?
Speaker B:How has that been?
Speaker B:Is it hard to get people on board?
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Good question.
Speaker C:Is it hard?
Speaker C:I think one thing that we did in our learning program, again, I think one thing that is important that I've learned is to find the correct language to use and sometimes talking about values What I stand for.
Speaker C:To some people it feels a bit like form.
Speaker C:So finding like for example, we used more like a mission, like your personal mission or your motivation sometimes, even though bottom line it was the similar things we were trying to do.
Speaker C:But we.
Speaker C:What I really believe in is that even though organizations often have like values, they even have like sustainability goals and targets, I think it's really important to connect to your personal drive and your personal like yeah, what you stand for and if you're able to activate that, even though that's not exactly what you work on in a sense, if you can find your mission, like what you can bring into the world, into the table, into the workplace, then you can really keep that long lasting motivation because it is really a marathon working in systems change and like it's nothing that's going to be quick fix or easy solutions.
Speaker C:We have to really have the staff to continue and if that drive is really deeply rooted and it's more like easier to do so.
Speaker C:But to your question, what I've done in some of my teams and of course I was leading more of the sustainability team, so people that are quite already prone to kind of their own speaking to the choir in a sense.
Speaker C:But it's like even, even in that context, we, we started all our meetings with like our stance and really, really like practicing that.
Speaker C:And what I saw was even though I think we had a quite open and inclusive culture already, what I saw is that by, by doing that and also sharing like where, where are you at this moment?
Speaker C:Like having a proper check in.
Speaker C:It opened up a space for people to actually say like, I am feeling horrible today or like I am really this.
Speaker C:And this happened in my personal life and I.
Speaker C:Not everyone has to like go into that or share everything, but it did open a space for people to be more honest or to have the chance to be like, I'm not actually in a good place today.
Speaker C:And then we could actually consider that and like support that person in a deeper way than what I saw before.
Speaker C:Even though I felt it was a supportive culture, but it was like one level down, one level deeper, one level.
Speaker C:People speak a lot about psychological safety and that feels sometimes a bit of a buzzword.
Speaker C:But I think that's actually what kind of unlocked by speaking from your values and open up the space of checking in and creating those rituals.
Speaker C:And I think one of the things that I really took with me from the course of integrating this perspective is the concept of generative meetings.
Speaker C:So a lot of us have a lot of meetings during the Days, our calendars are just back to back.
Speaker C:Especially after Corona, we're just more and more meetings stacked up.
Speaker C:And I don't know about you guys, but a lot of the meetings that I was attending was not generative in the sense of like, I did not enter them and feel better.
Speaker C:I entered them and felt like, drained or like energy was taken away from me.
Speaker C:And the ability to actually use rituals or think of meetings as rituals and this time them in a way that can leave people feeling better or leave people feeling more energized or more connected.
Speaker C:After attending a meeting, that is like one of the most powerful things I think I took with me.
Speaker C:And really focusing on.
Speaker C:It's not just what we do, it's how we do it.
Speaker B:So true.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Have you faced any challenges or surprises perhaps when you have been using the tools and the framework?
Speaker C:One of the things, since I've been working in more like private sector for a while, people are focusing on the commercial side and the profits.
Speaker C:And this is not a toolbox that is just directly how to create a profitable business.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It's to create systemic change.
Speaker C:So what I had to do is to kind of connect it to some of the other business tools.
Speaker C:This is a good, like, it's not changing, it's not throwing out all of your business tools, but it's.
Speaker C:It's adding more tools and you can use them together.
Speaker C:So you can still work on the business modeling, but really bring in this value perspective and the systemic perspective.
Speaker C:And together it really brings the value that you can make innovations that are both commercially oriented and have systemic value.
Speaker C:But I think that is something that at least some of the leaders I talk to is, is this really something for private sector?
Speaker C:But I think it can definitely be that.
Speaker C:And there is like a.
Speaker C:A way to really connect those dots and have that deeper understanding that it.
Speaker C:It's not just about like NGOs or research.
Speaker C:It's really, you can bring it into a business context, but it's not maybe as clear from the beginning as you see that, but it's definitely there.
Speaker B:So, Karen, do you have any examples?
Speaker B:Because now you had a lot of people through the program and I've seen also that you have some examples.
Speaker B:Do you have anyone in your head, like, examples of bigger private sector organizations who have been using this successfully?
Speaker D:Yeah, well, I mean, people come from private sectors, from the building sector, from the energy sector, people working on clean energy things.
Speaker D:And we're in fact developing a program that is really for energy transitions in that because it is as Eden Said it is highly relevant, and it's not just about systemic change, but it's about realizing the results we want to see in the world and really connecting them to sustainability from, like, very deeply, not superficially.
Speaker D:So I think the people who come from the private sector, they start to see that, okay, these are the things that need to shift within my sector or field, and often they start to connect.
Speaker D:When they connect who they are with what they do, sometimes they start to see that, oh, there's a whole other area we can open up this as Eden, as you did with putting design with sustainability, and you start to see that there are so much untapped potential within these sectors to really do it in a different way.
Speaker D:And I think many people are really hungry for that right now and wanting to have meaning and purpose in their jobs and in their businesses because, you know, we're at such a critical time for humanity, for nature.
Speaker D:That that idea then, that this applies to everything.
Speaker D:And that's the beauty of tlfs and the approach that Monica Sharma developed, really, is that it's thematically agnostic.
Speaker D:You know, you can use it for tech development, and they're doing that.
Speaker D:You can use it for the arts, you could use it for, you know, to counter racism.
Speaker D:You can use it for women's rights or anything, because it's really.
Speaker D:It's a tool that is very, you know, it's consistent.
Speaker D:It's actually creating these, like, fractals of change, new patterns that are working wherever, whatever context you're in, whatever situation.
Speaker D:And I think that's the beauty of it, because it's.
Speaker D:It's adaptable.
Speaker D:And as Eden pointed out, you can bring it together with what you're already doing, but it's about doing things differently.
Speaker D:Not necessarily just changing everything you do, but thinking, like, what's missing here?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't know if I have a.
Speaker A:Question.
Speaker B:For this, but looking at the world now, and we kind of wake up to news every day, like, what happened now we have all the wars, we have the political arena, we have going into a summer which is probably going to be really hot, a lot of places, all these different things happening in the world, how, like, we need transformational leadership.
Speaker B:So as I said, I don't know if there's a question there, but do you see what I mean?
Speaker B:How can we.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What do we do?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And I think this brings us to the, like, the.
Speaker D:The whole kind of reason that we really went for this program, because we see people as the solutions to global problems.
Speaker D:And a lot of Leadership courses are for people in management positions or leadership positions.
Speaker D:And if we look at what's going on in the world today, and if we are waiting for leaders to get us out of it, it will not happen.
Speaker D:You start to see the power of people.
Speaker D:And Monica's approach recognizes every single person has this inner capacity, this.
Speaker D:The deepness of who they are can actually shift systems at multiple scales.
Speaker D:You know, we all have families, we all have communities, we all have, you know, cities, regions and things that we are.
Speaker D:We are all embedded in society.
Speaker D:And so what the world really needs right now, I think, is this, you know, like, is that waking up to all of us as systems changers is all of us as showing up deeply connected through this very, like, a subtle space of oneness that, like, what I care about is.
Speaker D:What you care about is what, you know, we have to care about, future generations, other species, et cetera.
Speaker D:So it's a.
Speaker D:It is a much deeper and a broader approach to transformations than any of the kind of governments are currently engaging in.
Speaker D:And we're seeing that.
Speaker D:We're not seeing the measurable results that we need, whether it's.
Speaker D:We're talking about climate, whether we're talking about biodiversity, whether we're talking about global peace and ending poverty.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:And I think.
Speaker B:Didn't you say that one of your values were agency?
Speaker C:Eden, actually, in the beginning, the first.
Speaker C:The first day of the course, you're forced to state your values and comes a bit like, whoa, what do I choose?
Speaker C:I think I chose agency at that point.
Speaker B:Yeah, I saw it on a LinkedIn page that was.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I realized, like, agency has always been within me.
Speaker C:I really, I'm a really strong believer that anyone can make a difference.
Speaker C:And so it's, It's.
Speaker C:I would say now it's more part of my strategy or part of, like, what I want to bring into the world.
Speaker C:But now I say equity, curiosity and passion.
Speaker C:But agency, I think, is really what's missing.
Speaker C:A lot of people are not seeing themselves as change makers.
Speaker C:They don't feel empowered to make a difference.
Speaker C:And I really believe that in any context, in any, like, one of the things that I work with a lot, which is very aligned with c.
Speaker C:Change's perspective is really, really like, anywhere you sit in the organization you have in power to make a difference, you have an impact.
Speaker C:So, like, helping people see that, okay, you are an HR or you are just a normal project worker, whatever you are, you can always find an angle where you can make a difference.
Speaker C:And like, helping people see that is really what I deeply care about.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And I just add that it's not just having agency, but it really is the quality of agency.
Speaker D:It's connecting the agency to those values of equity, of curiosity, you know, the compassion, whatever.
Speaker D:And that is what we, you know, that it's a subtle change, but that is how do we show up in those situations.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I was thinking, because it's so easy to sit there and think that, oh, now somebody has to do something.
Speaker B:Where are all the grown ups?
Speaker B:So what I'm wondering, and I've been asking a lot of my podcast guests, is lately, because now I feel in my work that I'm most of the time speaking to people with the same LinkedIn algorithm as I have.
Speaker B:I feel like I'm speaking to the choir and there's so many people out there, just as you said.
Speaker B:I remember when I started working with this, my boys were playing football and I was thinking about just the football field or the trainers, the manager of the club, how much like not power, but ability to make changes we all have no matter where we are in society, but how to reach all the people that think they don't matter that much.
Speaker B:Do you have any ideas about that?
Speaker B:How to not only speak to the choir?
Speaker D:Yeah, no.
Speaker D:That gets to the heart of exactly what I'm passionate about, is that you matter more than you think.
Speaker D:And you know, and I think the tools that we get in TLFs, how do I show up in that political sphere?
Speaker D:How do I connect with people who don't share my views and beliefs or concerns or anything like this.
Speaker D:And to make that connection based on who we deeply are and what we care about, because it goes into not just telling people what to do, but asking questions saying, like, oh, what do you really care about?
Speaker D:Or football trainer, what do you really care about?
Speaker D:And then connecting from there, rather than just imposing like this is what our sustainability plan should be and you should do this.
Speaker D:And I think that it awakens that agency in people, it awakens that possibility.
Speaker D:And for people to really see that it's not just about others.
Speaker D:It's like who I am, what I do, how I show up.
Speaker D:I can actually design for systems and cultural shifts and create results that I want to see at whatever scale.
Speaker D:And then those patterns are changing all over society.
Speaker D:And that is almost like these self similar fractal patterns that repeat themselves regardless of scale.
Speaker D:And we start to see that, you know, whether I'm working with the United nations on the transformative change assessment IFBEs, or whether I'm working with a master student on a thesis.
Speaker D:The same values have to apply the same principles and things and then that you can have impact that really ripples out much farther than we can ever imagine.
Speaker D:And that's where we are both individuals and collectives at the same time.
Speaker D:So it really gets to this idea that we are underestimating our shared capacity for social change by just limiting the role that every single person has.
Speaker B:Yes, I just have to, because I know that you have this book called.
Speaker A:You Matter More Than youn Think.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:That's the right example.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you talk about quantum social change and this is exactly what you're talking about now.
Speaker B:Could you just like briefly explain what you mean by that?
Speaker D:Yeah, well, I think that we tend to think about ourselves as mattering in very specific ways.
Speaker D:We don't necessarily see that connect this idea that the individual is the collective is the system, that quantum social change is this non linear, non local conscious approach to social change that is based on our inherent oneness.
Speaker D:And that is, it gets right to the heart of TLFS because it is this idea of what are the values that apply to all of us.
Speaker D:Not in this like kind of classical causal way.
Speaker D:I do this, you do this.
Speaker D:But that what we, you know, we're part of through language, through shared meaning.
Speaker D:We're.
Speaker D:We're actually shifting the system all the time in how we show up right here and now and right here and now and how we design then for the future.
Speaker D:And I guess that brings to people will say, well, what does, you know, quantum social change mean in practice?
Speaker D:And it really means that practice matters.
Speaker D:And that's something that, you know, we need to emphasize in the transformative.
Speaker D:The TLFS course is that that is not just about going to a workshop, but it's about practicing in between.
Speaker D:So we have these triad calls with a group that we just are to practice with each other to see like, okay, what tools, how do I apply this to my initiative?
Speaker D:And so when people come to the course, they bring with them an initiative, a breakthrough initiative that they will work on actively through the course and practice with it.
Speaker D:And practice with it.
Speaker D:And practice with it.
Speaker D:And I've used whether the Biodiversity Platform's Transformative Change Assessment was my project one year.
Speaker D:The you Matter More Than youn Think book was my project.
Speaker D:The textbook on climate and society.
Speaker D:You know, I bring it into everything I do to think, well, how can I design differently in order to make a difference?
Speaker C:Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up because that's one of the things that I find the most valuable with the telephys program is the practice and the ability to really and the focus of integrating the toolbox into your current reality.
Speaker C:And it's not just your work, it's also your, the whole life.
Speaker C:And you, when you join the triad calls.
Speaker C:It's also a lot of the learnings and the reflections are about how you show up with your family or your friends.
Speaker C:And it's, it's, it's the whole, it's your whole self.
Speaker C:And, and I think that's also what separates it from a lot of other programs is that it's so focused on not being this one off thing, but actually being something that you are practicing, your context, your what you care about, you're bringing it back.
Speaker C:And I'm still part of the book club now three years later.
Speaker C:That's of course voluntarily for the ones that are especially interested.
Speaker C:But a lot of us actually stick with our triads and continue checking in and meeting regularly to actually pick up like what am I, am I still in, in integrity with buying values?
Speaker C:Like how, what am the problems that I, that show up, how am I dealing with them?
Speaker C:What am I learning on the way?
Speaker C:So it's really like this long tail of learning that doesn't stop when the program is over.
Speaker C:But you can have that continuous learning and I think that's really so valuable and that's what really separates it.
Speaker D:Yeah, and it's very inquiry based.
Speaker D:So you know, like when somebody has an insight, you learn from their insights.
Speaker D:It's like, oh, just like Eden, I can relate to that.
Speaker D:And then I learned from her, I learned from you.
Speaker D:Sharing what you learned.
Speaker D:And I think that is where like the collective learning process as a group we start to, you know, we, we learn much more than we think because we, yeah, we're all very much connected and have similar, similar struggles and similar ambitions for people in the planet.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:I agree so much with that.
Speaker B:It's so different when it comes to.
Speaker B:It's not just going to a course and coming back full of motivation and then it just drops.
Speaker A:It's a continuous learning process.
Speaker B:So to get to the practical side of this, what's next now for TLFS next cohort signups?
Speaker B:Karen?
Speaker D:Yeah, well, we're running the course again this fall starting in September.
Speaker D:And yeah, we're still accepting registrations for participants for a new cohort.
Speaker D:And this will be probably what, my seventh time doing the program and we have a lot of people who come back and do it again and Again, because again it is this idea of practice and it's also about building this community, building a community of practice for people who like to share different ways of doing things, you know, and whether it's how like I do my research or my teaching or how we do designing, how we engage with, you know, organizations and things.
Speaker D:So and Eden, you can give maybe more information on the signup and things but it's really an opportunity to we bring Monica Sharma here and we, I co facilitate it with her to really like think about in the context of today's challenges, what do we need to do?
Speaker D:How do we bring that call that all governments have signed onto that we need transformative change?
Speaker D:How do we make it happen?
Speaker D:How do we make it real?
Speaker D:How do we actually do it so that we see the results?
Speaker D:And that's what I really care deeply about for myself and others.
Speaker C:Yes, from the practical side I think we touched upon it, but it's a physical program.
Speaker C:So we have the three meeting times.
Speaker C:One in September, October, November and each of the sessions have a theme.
Speaker C:So the first part is really being the change, like working inwards, connecting with your values, exploring fears and motivations and learning techniques around really showing up.
Speaker C:And then the second one in the second one is focusing on designing the change and that's a bit more practical.
Speaker C:The toolbox around your initiative, how you can really think strategically, going from just being to action and focusing on what are good ways and strategic ways to approach this challenge from a systemic perspective and focusing on the values.
Speaker C:The last one is leading change which is kind of pulling it all together and focusing on how to build a community, how to really scale your initiative and speak in a way that people can join and really just end up in a place where you can really have that power behind your goals in a sense.
Speaker C:And then as we mentioned in between every week there's a coaching call where we have those try it with the learning so you have the practice in between that I found really valuable and really, really like so much of the learning.
Speaker C:Like you take in a lot of it on, on the gatherings and then you kind of digest them during the weeks in between, which I find really, I think just as valuable as the gatherings themselves.
Speaker C:It's the, the ability to digest and really test out the learnings.
Speaker C:So yeah, and we're going to be in a beautiful location this time outside Oslo on this like farm area and more, more nature connected than ever.
Speaker C:And also a chance to what Karen also mentioned, build a bit more of this community.
Speaker C:Going to this place Together and having even more time to connect with the other participants.
Speaker B:So, yeah, and I have a important question because a lot of my audience is not in Norway.
Speaker B:So I remember when I took the program, there was at least a few people coming from abroad.
Speaker B:So it's in English first and foremost.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And how many, like, people can come from wherever, Right?
Speaker D:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker D:We've had people from, you know, Spain, South Africa, Nepal, you know, all over the world because, again, it's such an opportunity to.
Speaker D:Monica runs programs around the world, but ours is really focusing on climate change and sustainability issues.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker D:And it is then like, our goal and ambition is to really create a global community where this is being.
Speaker D:Where sustainability is being approached in a very different way and where we see and I think the urgency of the time, it really calls for, like, okay, everyone, let's activate our collective potential for social change.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, Eden, what would you say to somebody who's kind of now sitting on the fence wondering, like, curious, not sure who should they maybe ask questions or contact if they.
Speaker B:If they can't decide, well, how to make that decision?
Speaker B:Would you say, what would you say to somebody sitting on the fence?
Speaker C:We're happy to help and have conversations and share more information about the program, but I also think if it's something you're curious of and people are like, do I have time for this?
Speaker C:How do I make time in my schedule?
Speaker C:I think it's the perfect time, is when you feel like you don't have time because that is when you are in this state of already, like, overwhelm and.
Speaker C:And I can relate to.
Speaker C:Well, a lot of people has taken the course as well.
Speaker C:Told told me about, like, I didn't really feel like I had time.
Speaker C:I was like, drowning in work.
Speaker C:And actually, because this is not a content heavy, but actually experience heavy or experience focused, and you create the space to actually focus on you and connect with what's important.
Speaker C:It actually becomes generative again.
Speaker C:It gives back more than it takes, and it creates those moments of reflection and it's moments of space that you can actually breathe and feel deeply what's important.
Speaker C:And also take a look at what's working for you in your life, what's not working for you.
Speaker C:How am I going to show up in the future?
Speaker C:So if you're in a place where maybe you don't feel as aligned to your values or that you feel like there's a gap there, or you're just looking for how am I going to, like, what's going to be next for me?
Speaker C:How am I going to show up in the future?
Speaker C:Or if you are working on a specific cause and you're feeling a bit stuck or you feel like I really deeply care about this cause, but I'm not sure how I'm going to create the results that I really care about.
Speaker C:And I think this is a program for you and I can't really see who it's not for, to be honest.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And I should say that we encourage people to come with some of their colleagues or groups so that you have a shared landscape language.
Speaker D:So if you.
Speaker D:Because if you're like three from an organization or a department or institution or something that then you have like people to practice with too.
Speaker D:And I think that that is more powerful and we're really trying to get it from all sectors and all branches of society because this, we need an ecosystem of change to actually create the transformative change that we need right now.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I wonder if you.
Speaker B:Karen, do you have some, some.
Speaker B:Before we wrap up, do you have some final words for people who wonder if they have the power to change the world for the better?
Speaker D:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:I guess my first thing would be yes, you absolutely do have that power.
Speaker D:But it's also, it's not just with as with individuals, it's our collective power.
Speaker D:It's us working together differently.
Speaker D:It's recognizing that the I and the we are one and that every small thing we do can make a big difference in the world and that gives us a lot more possibility and potential.
Speaker D:And right now when the world is a very scary place and it looks like we are getting farther from our targets, we need people to stand up and work together and you know, keep our eye on the possibility and the potential to do things differently.
Speaker D:And so I would love to like that.
Speaker D:I think TLFS is really part of creating this you matter movement where we start to wake people up to that potential and, and do it on behalf not just of on ourselves and others, but also future generations because they are really dependent on what we do right here and right now.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Do you have anything to add, Eden?
Speaker C:I think that was a perfect summary.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But I think also it's about finding your tribe right.
Speaker C:Like, you know, you're not alone.
Speaker C:And it's what you said, Karen, like, yes, you matter but we can do it together and you're not alone.
Speaker C:And for me it has been super important to find like minded people or like valued people that can actually feel like we are work.
Speaker C:We're all in different fractions.
Speaker C:We are working on different things.
Speaker C:But we are doing this.
Speaker C:We have the same goal and we are working in the same direction together.
Speaker C:Finding your people makes you feel like you can sustain this work longer than if you're doing it alone.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:So true.
Speaker B:I think that's a very good place to end and with both hope and a very, very strong call to action.
Speaker B:I think not just a call to action that you see on like, but a big call to action for all of us.
Speaker B:So thank you so much to both of you and best of luck with the next cohort.
Speaker B:And I will add all the links and information in the show notes so people can have a look.
Speaker B:Thank you so much.
Speaker D:Great.
Speaker D:Thank you so much.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker A:I really hope that this conversation left you feeling not just inspired, but also thinking that, yes, what you do really matters.
Speaker A:If I should sum up what my biggest takeaway is, I think it is that transformation really does happen when we stop separating who we are from the work that we do.
Speaker A:And Karen and Eden showed us that sustainable change isn't just about having the right strategies or policies.
Speaker A:It's about showing up fully as ourselves, grounded in our values and understanding that our individual actions create ripples in ways we might not realize.
Speaker A:I really cannot recommend the TLFS program strongly enough.
Speaker A:This is exactly the kind of leadership development our world needs right now.
Speaker A:It's not just another course or program, it's a community that will support you long after the program ends.
Speaker A: xt Cohort starts in September: Speaker A:So if you're someone who cares about creating positive change but sometimes feel feels overwhelmed by where to start, this program will give you both the clarity and courage you need.
Speaker A:Check out all the links in the show notes.
Speaker A:You'll find information about tlfs, Karen's book youk Matter More Than youn Think and idun's work with Respira.
Speaker A:And if you're even slightly curious, I encourage you to explore it.
Speaker A:You can get in touch with Eden to hear about her experience, or you can even contact me.
Speaker A:Because as we learned today, you really do matter more than you think.
Speaker A:For more future friendly content, reflections and tools for change, including my quiet Pivot Companion Pack.
Speaker A:You are welcome to join me on Substack or check out everything I do@storiesforthefuture.com until next time, keep creating those stories for the future.
Speaker A:I will talk to you soon.
Speaker D:It.
